One for the Brits
I know this subject has come up before, but with the apparant rise of nationalism (well, certainly here in Wales) I just wondered what people thought. So, what are you first and foremost? And how do you feel about the union?

I would be very sorry to lose the Scots.

The union is the life blood of all four nations.

The union has bled Scotland dry.

I don't see how you can say that, T. What evidence have you got?

I didn't vote because I'm Canadian. But my ancestors thought of themselves as Irish first. And resented the Brits (to put it mildly. Apparently they were big in the IRA) My Scottish Canadian friends I grew up with Identify with Scotland, and not Britain or the UK at all. But these were people who immigrated at least two generations ago.

I don't see how you can say that, T. What evidence have you got? This is a huge subject and has its roots deep in the past. I don’t want to write an essay, but as I see it Scotland was pretty much backed into a corner and had to join the union after the withdrawal of English funds for the Darien Project. So we entered the union largely against our will and at a financial disadvantage. Scotland was (and largely still is) a country of two parts; the Highlands and the Lowlands, and they think and operate very differently. After the Jacobite Rebellion and the diabolical slaughter at Culloden the Highlanders were firmly put in our place: our language was outlawed. It was illegal to speak Gaelic. Our national dress was outlawed. It was illegal to wear plaid. We were not allowed to carry arms to defend ourselves. Rather than support the local people, those in charge (most Clan chiefs had by now been absorbed into Lowland / English society) evicted them make way for sheep. Our population was decimated. There are fewer people living in the Highlands now than there were 200 years ago. The Thatcher years crippled us even further. What industries we did have were not supported. As the economy grew strong down south Southerners would sell their properties and buy ours as holiday homes. Whilst youngsters struggled to put a mortgage together Southerners would snap up properties at vastly inflated prices. Locals left and our villages became peopled with incomers. (There is a little fishing village a couple of miles down the road from us, known locally amongst the handful of us left as ‘Little England’: there is not one Scottish family living there now. Our cultural heritage has been scattered to the winds. Scottish history, to this day, is not taught in our schools. There are now, thankfully, plans to introduce it. And that’s just for starters. :?

As the economy grew strong down south Southerners would sell their properties and buy ours as holiday homes. Whilst youngsters struggled to put a mortgage together Southerners would snap up properties at vastly inflated prices. Locals left and our villages became peopled with incomers. That is also the case here in Wales, and many parts of the West Country. :(

Well I live in Cumbria and I get - or did when I had a TV - television in Scottish gaelic so it doesn't seem to be outlawed any longer ;). Would you prefer if the Highlands of Scotland became independent tho? (serious question).

*starts singing "Rogues in a Nation" for the benefit of all concerned*

*starts singing "Rogues in a Nation" for the benefit of all concerned* And of course Robert Burns was told to tone it down or he'd be exiled. *sings the 6th verse of the british national anthem just to confirm* In answer to your question Moose, I'd love to see Scotland become independent.

How could a Northern Ireland type situation be avoided, though, between Nationalists and Unionists? Wouldn't it lead a to divided Scotland?

I don't think so, Juju. If Scotland became independent it would be because we decided upon it ourselves. The SNP basically want to be able to ask Scotland "Do you want independence?" and are working towards putting just that question in a referendum. If Scotland says yes, the SNP will stay in charge until their term of office is over and then, as a political party, will become defunct. The following election would be fought by Scottish political parties (Labour/Conservative/Lib Dem etc.) We will have voted for it ourselves and not had it foisted upon us. Ireland has suffered a far greater degree of cruel oppression by the British than we have and up 'til more recent times. Their wounds are deeper and still pretty raw. Also, we don't have the same degree of sectarianism as Northern Ireland. It is there, but without the deadly violence and the need for intervention by the army.

I've just said It is there, but without the deadly violence and the need for intervention by the army. By that I mean the perceived need for intervention by the army by the government ... if you see what I mean.

It is commonly said in the British press that Scotland could not afford independence without English financial help. A Scottish friend of mine says that this is bullshit though and just English propoganda. Does anyone know the truth of the situation?